Curse

Trevor · May 14, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I think the problem is a lot of people read the first paragraph of the OP.

Then click reply. They dont read the whole thing or the rest of the thread.

His post isnt really about ATS skins -.o He starts with that and rambles on to his actual point which is about PvE chars and their difficulty of making them fully loaded for PvP.

This, my friends, is the great paradox of the internet: everyone likes to rant, but no one ever wants to read one.

Anyways, it still stands the same. If you want to PvP, use a PvP character. That's what they're there for.

Plague · May 14, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Yes... I was actually thinking about "buying" skills with Balth faction the other day, myself. The method I thought up was in unlocking them twice, so to speak. If I play my PvE Assassin, I'd like to be able to launch in RA or whatever, get 2k faction, unlock a new skill, then "purchase" it for use. If unlocking a skill in PvP using this method is supposedly the equivalent of just buying one (or getting a quest reward) in PvE, I don't see any reason why this shouldn't be allowed. I've already unlocked the skill, after all. I've earned the right to use it, certainly. I've trained up my character and decked him out and used him properly enough to earn my victories. I'm even paying twice the amount other people do.

Elites are another story, though. It's a battle to find the right boss and then to kill it and capture his unique skill, after all. Then again, in PvP, you're just trading in 3 ordinary skills for an elite one. Would 6k faction really be the equivalent to hunting down and killing a boss? It'd certainly be as much of a pain in the butt, but it still doesn't seem right.

Orinn · May 14, 2007, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

It is.. except.. wait.. PvE characters are better. (I run a pve warrior in gvg)

How? What does a PvE character bring to the table that a PvP character cannot? More power to you if you run a PvE character in PvP. I never said it was impossible, but did you take the time to UAX your PvE warrior? I assume you did. Can you make a PvE assassin or Ritualist and take it directly into GvG? Can you make a PvP-only assassin or rit and do it? being able to take one PvE character into GvG and be on equal footing is an accomplishment, but consider the time spent just to get that one character ready to PvP. THEN consider the time spent to make a PvP-only character and be ready for GvG, even starting from scratch, no unlocks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

Believe it or not, a pve character with the weapons of a pvp character is not at a distinct disadvantage. Observe high end matches, you'll see alot of pve chars.

The "distinct disadvantage" I mentioned had nothing to do with weapons. I meant the skills that were unlocked by that account for a Pvp character, against the skills learned by a character for a PvE character. The PLAYER has unlocked a certain amount of skills, but only the PvP-only character can take full advantage of them. The PvE character is far more limited in skill selection, unless he has done as you did and took a LOT of time and effort making that one specific character ready for PvP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

And they don't, a well equipped PvE has the advantage.

How? I'm with Lyra on this one, I don't think that a PvE character can ever have an equipment advantage over a PvP pcharacter. I could be wrong, but doesn't every modifier/inscription that exists in PvE also exist as an unlockable in PvP?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

pvp characters are very limited without unlocks.

So are PvE characters. A completely new player, one who just picked up GW an hour ago, is not going to be competitive in high-end GvG. My line of thinking is from someone who has almost all the item unlocks, and a good number of skills and elites unlocked, but the skill unlocks are spread across 10 PvE characters. Each individual PvE character has to go out and cap specific elites based on what I will be playing them as.

Quote:

Originally Posted by narcism

great, pve characters are still better then pvp characters.
what was this thread about?

Any PvE character can be just as good in PvP as a PvP character, if the player is willing to spend dozens of hours and possibly hundreds of platinum (on tomes) preparing for that. Why would anyone spend that time when PvP-only characters have all the advantages, and none of the disadvantages.

The thread was about that simple question. To me, it seems you believe that PvE characters should be difficult to bring into PvP. I explained why I don't believe that already, I think that PvP should be about the player, not about the character. Also I believe that removing the barriers that prevent people from WANTING to PvP would only be good for the game as a whole. More opponents and allies in PvP matches, and more experiences from players who have only played the PvE game. If more people start playing both PvE and PvP, I think that everyone wins. That's just my opinion though.

Narcism · May 14, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

-Dire/Hearty Pets
-Non-9 stat req gear.
-Variable attribute req. weapons (shields in pve can require tactics or strength)
-Runic Shield (+5 energy shield)
-+5 energy unconditional wands
-Wintergreen Wand (14 damage unconditional)
-A PvE character farms gold if needed to get the above, a pvp can't.
-A PvE characters gets free 30k+ every year to sell to idiots (minipet)

Quote:

but did you take the time to UAX your PvE warrior? I assume you did.

no because I know what skills I will and won't use on a warrior. no sense in unlocking cyclone axe or bonetti's.

Quote:

Can you make a PvE assassin or Ritualist and take it directly into GvG?

great question, did you expect a yes?

Plague · May 14, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Also, there are some items in the game that people own that existed before they were removed, or were the product of a glitch that was quickly resolved.

On the flip side, I would never say that being able to farm for gold is an advantage.

Narcism · May 14, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plague

On the flip side, I would never say that being able to farm for gold is an advantage.

That's incase someone had the balls' to say.. "You can use any of those items on a pvp char duh lololol", in which case, how are you going to get the above items.

lyra_song · May 14, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

-Dire/Hearty Pets
-Non-9 stat req gear.
-Variable attribute req. weapons (shields in pve can require tactics or strength)
-Runic Shield (+5 energy shield)
-+5 energy unconditional wands
-Wintergreen Wand (14 damage unconditional)
-A PvE character farms gold if needed to get the above, a pvp can't.
-A PvE characters gets free 30k+ every year to sell to idiots (minipet)

-Well the Dire/Hearty thing i totally agree with. And that needs to be resolved by Anet.

But the rest of that....youve got to be kidding me? You're a super l33t pvp-er. I thought you were gonna share some sort of secret that PvE chars could do that PvP chars couldnt. Im very disappointed.

Those are item imbalances that Anet needs to address and removed or disable in PvP. Like the built in IAS Nolani Wand. Or when Lieutenant's Helm was PvE only. Or the 20/20 Enchant% Axe. Or the FFS. Or when +5 energy was for PvE only. Or the 20/20 pre-nerf Rockmolder.

Its only a matter of time before Anet gets to these, but for the moment, would you really say these are a huge imbalance as compared to those items i listed above?

I got mocked for stating that skins can matter sometimes because your weapon/armor skins used to expose what build what you were using and could be used strategically against you. And in fact a PvP char vs a Prophecies only character would have skin advantage of hiding their stats.

-farming and money is irrelevant in PvP...

I completely agree that these are things a PvE character has advantage over a PvP character, but it is not enough to overcome the current flexibility and immediate skill pool of a PvP character. Youre also talking about very very high cost items, so not your standard pver who pvps would have access to them anyway (req 7 15^50 equips)

Bryant Again · May 14, 2007, 08:34 PM // 20:34

^ Not to mention, stats for weapon don't matter. A 7 Req. Sword does not do more damage than a Req. 9.

Narcism · May 14, 2007, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

But the rest of that....youve got to be kidding me? You're a super l33t pvp-er. I thought you were gonna share some sort of secret that PvE chars could do that PvP chars couldnt. Im very disappointed.

Its only a matter of time before Anet gets to these, but for the moment, would you really say these are a huge imbalance as compared to those items i listed above?

An item imbalance is an imbalance and shouldn't be there, regardless of how big or how little the difference is.

Quote:

I got mocked for stating that skins can matter sometimes because your weapon/armor skins used to expose what build what you were using and could be used strategically against you. And in fact a PvP char vs a Prophecies only character would have skin advantage of hiding their stats.

okay. well a prophecies only character chose to suck by not getting all 3 campaigns.. the armor is an addition to the suckiness.

Quote:

I completely agree that these are things a PvE character has advantage over a PvP character, but it is not enough to overcome the current flexibility and immediate skill pool of a PvP character.

that immediate skill pool had to be obtained somehow.

Why do people imagine that pvp characters, right out of the box are this godly insta-create characters? it takes work to get items in pvp y'know. And when you aren't high ranked in GvG, it takes a hell of a long time.

Narcism · May 14, 2007, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

^ Not to mention, stats for weapon don't matter. A 7 Req. Sword does not do more damage than a Req. 9.

the 7 or less req is mostly an issue with non-weapons such as focuses and shields, but thanks for comin' out.

lyra_song · May 14, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

An item imbalance is an imbalance and shouldn't be there, regardless of how big or how little the difference is.

I agree completely.

But what im arguing is that the smaller imbalance cannot overcome the larger imbalance.

Does that seem reasonable?

Quote:

kay. well a prophecies only character chose to suck by not getting all 3 campaigns.. the armor is an addition to the suckiness.

Well hypothetically speaking. If two players both only had Prophecies, and one was using a PvE char, with stat-specific armor VS a pvp char, with non-stat specific armor, I believe that Pvp char would have a slight advantage in knowing what the exact specs of his opponent's armor is. Would you agree?

Quote:

that immediate skill pool had to be obtained somehow.

Why do people imagine that pvp characters, right out of the box are this godly insta-create characters? it takes work to get items in pvp y'know. And when you aren't high ranked in GvG, it takes a hell of a long time.

Oh are you kidding. Its hell. My second account is taking forever to UAX. Im PvPing to unlock, and transfering tomes from my first account to get my baby characters hooked up.

Nobody is denying that UAX via PvP only takes a LONG time. But doesn't getting a PvE char ready to PvP take a long time as well?

The arguement is that its way way more worth it to UAX via PVP if youre gonna pvp vs UAXing only a few professions who cant change primaries with a PVE character.

Narcism · May 14, 2007, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I agree completely.

But what im arguing is that the smaller imbalance cannot overcome the larger imbalance.

Does that seem reasonable?

14 damage wand shots vs 3-5. No it doesn't.

Quote:

Well hypothetically speaking. If two players both only had Prophecies, and one was using a PvE char, with stat-specific armor VS a pvp char, with non-stat specific armor, I believe that Pvp char would have a slight advantage in knowing what the exact specs of his opponent's armor is. Would you agree?

I just thought of something while in the bathroom that nullify's your point.

The Prophecies PvE char has the option to make his character look like a pvp char. If he chooses to wave that right (15k armor, non-gladius skins, non-pvp-dye colors) then it is his own fault, and there's no imbalance.

There is no imbalance, because the option is there, and it is just as viable in PvP.

lyra_song · May 14, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

14 damage wand shots vs 3-5. No it doesn't.

Perhaps you and I should make a thread to have said item remove then?

Quote:

I just thought of something while in the bathroom that nullify's your point.

The Prophecies PvE char has the option to make his character look like a pvp char. If he chooses to wave that right (15k armor, non-gladius skins, non-pvp-dye colors) then it is his own fault, and there's no imbalance.

There is no imbalance, because the option is there, and it is just as viable in PvP.

First: TMI ;P lol.

Second. Hmnn...ill have to think about that.

Nekretaal · May 14, 2007, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orinn

I've been a proponent of allowing any character, PvE or PvP, access to ALL account-based unlocks while in a PvP area. .

Thats not a bad Idea.

What about giving PvE characters acess to the pvp weapon and armor creation screen? SInce a "vampric pvp gladius of fortitude" cant be used in PvE, nobody is hurt, and we dont get inequities like "rewards that only benefit your pvp characters."

I think that would help too.

Ensign · May 14, 2007, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

We complained. They fixed it (eventually). Now PvP chars are up to par and even better than PvE chars now.?

PvP characters are now better in PvE than PvE characters?

Age · May 14, 2007, 09:48 PM // 21:48

I can't think of any pro for PvP for this but for PvE if you PvP with it mean that you can get off The Battle Islands.I hate hanging around The Battle Islands the language is bad and the attidudes it like most of them are 13.When you are in LA,Kamaden or KC it is nothing but trade talk and waiting for runs and needing help with this and that not the trash talk you get at The Battle Islands.

Yes maybe they should make a PvE HoH where it originally was at the Tomps a lot like AB and more PvE arenas like Ascalon,Yaks,Sing Jea and Kamaden.It would be nice to see a LA,HoD and Droks the reason is so you can PvP with your PvE char and be on even keel with other PvE players.i would even move the armour to the LA arena that is in Droks.The rewards for this would be different type of faction or earning points that could be used to aquire 15k armour on that char only.

Then agian I see a lot of Guilds in gvg that only use PvE char I pretty sure they are Korean or Taiwan maybe some European.I never see any American guilds.The guilds i saw are War Machine and Evil.

Retribution X · May 14, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

-Dire/Hearty Pets
-Non-9 stat req gear.
-Variable attribute req. weapons (shields in pve can require tactics or strength)
-Runic Shield (+5 energy shield)
-+5 energy unconditional wands
-Wintergreen Wand (14 damage unconditional)
-A PvE character farms gold if needed to get the above, a pvp can't.
-A PvE characters gets free 30k+ every year to sell to idiots (minipet)

no because I know what skills I will and won't use on a warrior. no sense in unlocking cyclone axe or bonetti's.

Hmm. 2 damage isn't really a big deal. the +60 hp is awesome though.
The gear is the biggest thing. I can invest 30 points for a shield in PvE, while PvP characters must invest 50 points for a shield.
Same as above.
not a huge biggie. tis req 6, and not max.
Wand doesn't have other great mods. + attack speed it really odd though.
Eh? Wintergreen weapons arn't really usefull on casters.
Because PvP doesn't need gold. (Well, you can get runes from traders.)
30k once a year isn't much.

And what if you needed to use Bonetti's defense? (Not that you ever would, because that skill sucks ass on a skill using warrior.)

Narcism · May 14, 2007, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retribution X

Eh? Wintergreen weapons arn't really usefull on casters.

I found lots of use in having an energy hiding 1h weapon that deals 14 damage.

Wintergreen Spear
10-10
15% -5e
+20%

Where normally.. an energy hiding swap on a monk would deal 3-5 or whatever it is.

3-5 vs 14-14 hmm

Quote:

30k once a year isn't much.

7 pve chars, starts to pile up.

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And what if you needed to use Bonetti's defense? (Not that you ever would, because that skill sucks ass on a skill using warrior.)

go outside kill some shit for half and hour and buy it? or do the skill quest in noob area in prophecies?